Vespa gts 300 hpe tuning diy

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GTS-Peter
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Vespa: GTS 300 Super Sport
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Re: Vespa gts 300 hpe tuning diy

#76 Beitrag von GTS-Peter » Do 10. Jun 2021, 07:03

Hi Rob,

I did also tests with a modded Airbox and yes, the mixture measured was leaner but more around 13, turning into the 12-region at higher rpm and 100% load - even with akrapovic exhaust and modded Airbox.

Adding this sensors for my project was really the best thing to do as it gives me the advantage to see what the modifications really leading to and with the Forcemaster3 or the Polini module, I'll be able to adjust the fuelling back to values of the engines best health and performance.

Measuring the AFR so close to the rear outlet of the exhaust is difficult because there is a risk of measuring too lean mixture as the exhaust Gases get may mixed with fresh air at this position depending on how the sensor is puttet in detail and if the exhaust is mounted 100% gas sealed. That's why the o2 sensors are mounted more close to the cylinderhead usually.

Don't get me wrong, it's possible that the AFR measured is correct. I just want to tell you that there is a risk of measuring too lean mixture if it's measured this way.
Ölwanne mit Schauglas für GTS 300 und HPE?

https://www.buchsenfuchs.com/shop/vespa/

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zirri01
Beiträge: 1043
Registriert: So 17. Jun 2012, 09:22
Vespa: 300GTS
Land: Österreich
Wohnort: Gleisdorf / Stmk

Re: Vespa gts 300 hpe tuning diy

#77 Beitrag von zirri01 » Do 10. Jun 2021, 09:06

Hi Rob

To get 22.8BHP on the rear wheel with these minimal changes is not possible. I assume a maximum of about 1.5 BHP more power than standard. Real with your modifications about 20 - 20.5 BHP at the rear wheel. Again a typical example that the tuner does not have his dyno under control, sorry.
I don't want to reduce your modifications with my answer. Bigger changes are required to get real 23BHP on the rearwheel.

As already described before by GTS01, "only" a shortening of the suction hose (sharp edge) without a funnel reduce the air flow and the engine performance.

Regards zirri01

Rob12395
Beiträge: 20
Registriert: Sa 17. Apr 2021, 19:54
Vespa: Gts 300 hpe
Land: Netherlands

Re: Vespa gts 300 hpe tuning diy

#78 Beitrag von Rob12395 » Do 10. Jun 2021, 18:43

Zirri/gts-peter, hard to say they do alot of dyno’s and doing this for like 15 years also with another vespa so i believe they know what they’re doing, but yea cant be sure maybe i will do a dyno somewhere else also. Looking at the diagram from vespa motorsport original hpe makes 19hp, so yea 3,8 more hp almost 20 procent is alot(maybe to much😒)

GTS-Peter
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Re: Vespa gts 300 hpe tuning diy

#79 Beitrag von GTS-Peter » Do 10. Jun 2021, 21:37

It's always the same problem if you don't do the first Dyno run with the untouched engine. If you don't know what power output you come from, you never know what you achieved.

But if you want to take it serious, you can get this Zeitronix lambda tool. The wideband o2 sensor can be exchanged with the original Vespa o2 sensor and the Zeitronix loops the signal through to the ECU so that both computers can work with the signal coming from only one O2 sensor. This is a real advantage but I have to admit that I never tested it on my own so the above written about the Zeitronix is just the theory I read.

I have got other tools that work for me so I am not so curious about the Zeitronix.

With this measurements you'll be able to adjust the fuelling via the Forcemaster3 to best performance values.
Ölwanne mit Schauglas für GTS 300 und HPE?

https://www.buchsenfuchs.com/shop/vespa/

Rob12395
Beiträge: 20
Registriert: Sa 17. Apr 2021, 19:54
Vespa: Gts 300 hpe
Land: Netherlands

Re: Vespa gts 300 hpe tuning diy

#80 Beitrag von Rob12395 » Do 10. Jun 2021, 23:22

Yea would be better if i did a original run.

Isnt there any tool that you can plug in to the vespa that reads this sort of things out like the lambda values becouse this is all stored in the ecu i guess. Obd/can-bus(cant find it myself)

Its not possible to take the signal from the original lamda, run a cable to a simple digital meter? Looking at zeitronix its a bit vague.

I guess without looking at the a/f ratio you indeed cant really get result with the malossi forcemaster or tune it wright.

GTS-Peter
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Re: Vespa gts 300 hpe tuning diy

#81 Beitrag von GTS-Peter » Fr 11. Jun 2021, 13:41

The original O2 sensor is only able to measure on a low rate. Like once a second. The wideband O2 sensors are much more precise. Some also call them "high speed sensor"

As I said, the Zeitronix seem to be a good tool. If the product description is correct, you can loop the signal through to the ECU.
Ölwanne mit Schauglas für GTS 300 und HPE?

https://www.buchsenfuchs.com/shop/vespa/

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stefko22
Beiträge: 127
Registriert: So 12. Feb 2017, 09:49
Vespa: GTS 300 FL / 300 HPE
Land: Österreich
Wohnort: Gänserndorf

Re: Vespa gts 300 hpe tuning diy

#82 Beitrag von stefko22 » Fr 11. Jun 2021, 16:27

It's working. I definitely can recommend the zeitronix tool.

And yes, it can calculate a small band lambda value out of the wideband signal it gets from its wideband lambda sensor.

As Peter already wrote, it can loop it through to the small band signal pin on your ECU.

Gesendet von meinem LYA-L09 mit Tapatalk


Rob12395
Beiträge: 20
Registriert: Sa 17. Apr 2021, 19:54
Vespa: Gts 300 hpe
Land: Netherlands

Re: Vespa gts 300 hpe tuning diy

#83 Beitrag von Rob12395 » So 13. Jun 2021, 10:54

What zeitronix tool are you guys precisely talking about(link?) becouse the site of zeitronix is not really easy to read/understand.

Gts-peter did you use 4.2 or 4.9 bosch lambda and is this plug and play? And i guess there is one or 2 cables you can take the signal of and run it to a digital meter or something.

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